Thai Girlfriend Investigation Results and Denial
Denial -- A Common Immediate Reaction
We understand that peoples futures are being seriously affected, so we do not report bad news unless we are sure, and we don't parade speculation as fact. Everyone is presumed innocent unless and until we have fairly clear evidence otherwise. We don't take this lightly. We report information accurately, citing the sources.
We collect as much evidence as we can and present it as-is. If it's not photographic, then we also provide as much information as we can so the customer can "verify" us, too, such as unique information which the customer already knows but didn't tell us (e.g., things the lady tells us about him, not knowing we are his undercover agent).
However, when we do get negative information, then we must deal with the human nature of our customer. "Love is blind", and it is natural to slip into wishful believing.
The first reaction to bad news is often denial by the foreign guy, i.e., a wishful thinking resistance to believe the facts presented. That is normal, and the emotional reaction of most men. The customer will often ask "are you SURE..." even though we have provided clear information. Psychologically, it takes time for the mind to "assimilate" and change your outlook.
In love, the lady or the man (whoever is unfaithful) will usually be careful and try to be clever to not get caught. However, they practically never think there will be an undercover agent of sufficient skill and experience assigned to them.
When we have detailed bad information for the customer to present to his girlfriend, many girlfriends will cave in with admission immediately. Some will be shocked and have a reaction similar to denial for awhile, but this usually just become a delayed admission.
However, some ladies will argue to the end, especially if they are basically scamming many men and accustomed to deceitful ways, and/or if she is receiving a lot of money and she's the one with most of the "power" in the relationship. Sometimes, it gets downright ridiculous. Guys have claimed that we have some reason to lie to them after clearly doing an in-depth investigation. Why would we lie to break up their relationship?
In most cases, we aren't even judging the lady. We are reporting what we found, and it's mainly up to the customer to judge.
In some grey area cases with sophisticated customers, where the outlooks of both sides seem understandable, we will try to convey the lady's outlook as best we can. The romantic relationship might or might not be over. In any case, there is a discussion in terms of similar expectations and values or lack thereof. The termination doesn't need to have excessive animosity. Sometimes, a friendship of some sort can be continued. Sometimes, the romance goes on anyway.
Sometimes the man can accept the lady's pre-existing other boyfriend who has supporter her family and herself for a long time, and forgive her. Or the father of her child, help in child raising, and practical matters for the time being. There are actually a lot of complicated stories along these lines.
A European customer had met his girlfriend in the late 1990s in a west-central Thailand province while he was working as an engineer. They had a relationship a few years, then broke off. His girlfriend subsequently established a relationship with a Thai man who ran a construction company in Chonburi, with her being his main assistant. She referred to this man as her "husband" though they were together only about 2 years or less and never signed a marriage. This relationship allegedly ended.
She rekindled her previous relationship with her European boyfriend, and they spent a lot of time together, whereby he also set her up in a new small business in Chonburi province. She claimed to be living above the shop with her two employees. He went to Europe for a short time in order to have an operation, after which he was planning to return to Thailand and implement some major commitments with his Thai girlfriend. He hired us right before we went into the hospital.
We found some bad results, that she was living with her previous "husband" and not tending the shop for days at a time, citing our methods. We had also gotten unique information that he hadn't provided us but already knew himself.
At first he asked us if we were sure ... really sure ... despite the fairly clear result. ("Denial")
The next day he stated:
Dear Khun ,
After due thought, I am sure you are right: it is just that such unpleasant information is hard to take in at first, and I think anyone in my position would prefer not to believe it.
Many thanks for your help and discretion.
[customer's name deleted]
And a short while after that, including some Thai lady agent viewpoints of his girlfriend's possible outlooks, that she was with just one man and not promiscuous, and that longtime relationships usually don't end quickly and easily, he replied this way:
Dear Khun ,
Thank you for your comments and advice; I will certainly give the matter some thought. In the meantime, I have confronted my girlfriend with the facts, and after much discussion and a lot of tears, she has confirmed that she is in fact still living with her Thai husband. She is obviously very upset that I have found out.
I was in Thailand only 4 weeks ago, when we discussed our future and how we would spend it together in Thailand. At that time, I knew about [Thai boyfriend], and she was very clear that that relationship was over. I have my long-term visa granted by the Thai embassy, and we had looked at houses, decided which one we would buy as soon as I could return to Thailand after my operation, and I bought the new [car] that she is presently driving, which was to be our vehicle for the next couple of years.
It appears that as soon as I was out of the country, she was back in her Thai husband's bed as quick as possible. That is not a behaviour I can understand, and is not the basis for the future relationship we were intending.
All this is not relevant to your investigation, but it helps me to get the matter out of my mind, and I beg your patience.
As for your investigation: it was quick, accurate, discreet and reasonably priced. If you require any recommendations for future potential clients, you can count on a recommendation from me.
Thanks again and best regards,
[customer's name confidential]
In the above case, reason prevailed over emotion (denial).
However, in some cases, the customer continues the denial, sometimes making us the target of their rage ("shoot the messenger"), regardless of their ability to independently verify our results easily.
Our most bizarre case of client denial was a man of approximately age 60 living in Los Angeles who wanted us to find his girlfriend in her low 20s. He said he didn't know where she lived, but he gave us her parents address and phone number, which was a house on Lad Prao Rd., saying she had always lived there until recently when she moved out because her new job was across town. She had told him that she got a normal weekday job, and that she now lived on the opposite side of town whereby she could get to/from her job without a long commute in traffic. However, he couldn't reach her anymore by phone. He was sending her money, and he seemed a quite intense person.
He sent us a photo of her with him, and her last know address and phone number above.
We sent an agent to the residence at Lad Prao to talk with the family about where she moved to, but the agent found out that she was still living there, never moved anywhere else, never got any job. She helped her parents as street hawkers, and just otherwise stayed at home with her parents and went out some nights. We confirmed she did not go out to work on weekdays, by just calling the phone during the day and asking for her. Her mother always answered. She had just instructed her parents to always answer the phone and always say she wasn't there when the Italian-American guy would call.
The guy did not believe us, and he had paid us, so we suggested we both call her at the same time, him right after us. But that wasn't proof enough for him. He thought we were lieing that we could get thru to her.
A key situation that makes this case remarkable is that the customer lived in Los Angeles, where there is a big Thai community called "Thai Town" (or jokingly "Province 77"), so we suggested that he go to that Thai community with his mobile phone and have a Thai person call the house of his girlfriend and ask for her immediately before or after he does, during the middle of a workday. He can dial the number himself, on his own phone.
He exploded, and then went thru one of the most weirdly convoluted, irrational, rationalizing and baseless arguments we've ever heard, with the conclusion that she is working and living somewhere else and we had better find it or else!! He was intelligence, ego and imagination gone berserk.
We figured he would cool down and come to his senses after awhile, and perhaps take the short trip to Thai town.
But no. He just sent us a photo of himself with a notorious mafia figure of the 1980s, standing beside him in an apparent signing ceremony, dressed for the occasion, together with a threat that we had better find out where she moved to and where she works, or else! Like he was so powerful that if the world wasn't how he wanted it, then he would force it to be that way! So we'd better find out where she lived across town, and satisfy his fantasy?
No thanks. Bye now.
It just goes to show you how people can totally lose their minds over mating, and age & experience don't always matter. Even with the opportunity for truth beyond a reasonable doubt (i.e., he go to Thai town and have a Thai person call her), some people will continue with denials and evasive thinking, all in defense of their ego and love illusion.
Sample case studies of Thai girlfriends:
- Hotel employee, fake student, delayed money requests, terrible deception, Bangkok
- Bargirl, success story, mixed but faithful, Bangkok
- Bargirl, Pattaya, with monthly support but repeated urgent pressures for extra money
- Quick entrapment by expat agent
- Surveillance by Thai agents
- Undercover Thai lady agents
- Denial -- sometimes the immediate reaction
- For foreign wife, find out if husband has a Thai girlfriend -- IF
- For foreign wife or man's family, find out about husband's Thai girlfriend -- ABOUT
- Composite issues
- Safety issues
- A customer's article on another website about our investigation, on Stickman Bangkok (we knew nothing of this article until after it was online and have had absolutely no editorial inputs to it)
- Thai bargirls and freelancers - some notes
- More case studies... hundreds!
Introducing your optional expat PI - Mark
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